Do you actually know where your business finances stand? Or are you hoping everything is okay because you're too busy to look?
In this episode of the Marketing Domination Podcast, I sit down with Billy Hofacker, a fractional CFO and money coach, to talk about the side of business most owners ignore until it blows up.
Billy shares the morning a tow truck showed up at his door and took his car, and how that moment led him to uncover $130,000 in non-mortgage debt. He paid it off in five years, went on to pay off almost $500,000 in total, and now helps gym owners and small business owners build financial systems that actually hold up.
We get into why "five more clients" won't fix an unprofitable business, why a business that isn't paying its owner is a sick business, and Billy's Two-Minute Critical Four Test: the four numbers every owner needs to know. We also cover net owner benefit, 13-week cash flow forecasts, how much of your revenue should go to marketing, and how to tell if your marketing dollars are actually coming back.
If you've been putting off looking at your numbers, this episode is your wake-up call.
KEY MOMENTS:
[00:00] Intro
[00:32] Meet Billy Hofacker, fractional CFO and money coach
[01:17] The morning a tow truck took Billy's car, and the $130,000 of debt he found after
[05:38] Why so many busy business owners are actually broke
[06:50] The three legs of the stool: sales and marketing, operations, and finance
[09:00] Why five more clients won't fix your business
[10:12] Pay yourself first, and why a business that isn't paying you is sick
[10:12] The Two-Minute Critical Four Test: total sales, net income, cash position, and net owner benefit
[17:01] What counts as net owner benefit (and what doesn't)
[18:53] Budgets, 13-month forecasts, and the 13-week cash flow forecast
[22:48] How much of your revenue should go to marketing
[24:36] How to tell if your marketing dollars are coming back
[26:14] The one thing to do with your finances this week
[28:56] How to connect with Billy
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
Finance is the neglected leg of the stool. Sales and marketing feel urgent. Finance is important but not urgent, so it gets ignored until something breaks.
More clients won't fix a broken model. If you're not profitable now, five more clients usually means more of the same problem.
Pay yourself now, not after a strong Q4. A business that pays a reasonable owner wage plus significant profit is healthy. Anything less sits somewhere on the unhealthy spectrum.
Know the Critical Four. Total sales, net income, cash position, and net owner benefit. If you can't find all four in two minutes, start there.
Keep about two months of operating expenses in cash. That reserve is your runway when a big customer leaves or the economy shifts.
Marketing usually lands between 8% and 15% of revenue. Below 8% may be leaving growth on the table. Above 15% may squeeze everything else. Look at all your allocations together.
Judge marketing by converted cash and margins. Cheap leads that never convert aren't a win, and a $3,000 client isn't $3,000 in your pocket.
ABOUT BILLY HOFACKER:
Billy Hofacker is a fractional CFO and money coach who helps gym owners and small business owners build financial systems that hold up. A former owner of two gyms on Long Island, New York, he paid off $130,000 of non-mortgage debt in five years and nearly $500,000 in total. He is the author of Fitness Profits and the host of the Your Fitness Money Coach Podcast.
Connect with Billy:
Website: https://yourfitnessmoneycoach.com/
Podcast: Your Fitness Money Coach Podcast
Social: Search "Billy Hofacker" on social media and send him a message
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Sean Garner is a marketing consultant and Certified StoryBrand guide dedicated to helping small business owners grow and dominate their industries. He created the Marketing Domination podcast to teach people how to combine storytelling with strategic marketing to help businesses connect with customers and stand out online.
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Let's Connect!
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Introduction
Sean Garner [00:00]: Do you actually know what the finances are of your business? Or do you just turn a blind eye to them and hope that everything's going okay? Because, you know, out of sight, out of mind.
Our guest today is Billy Hofacker. He is a fractional CFO and a money coach, and he's going to show you the things you need to do this week to get a better understanding of where you're at with your business finances. He'll also give you a simple two-minute drill you can do to take charge of your business finances so your business can be healthy and grow. Welcome to Marketing Domination.
Sean Garner [00:32]: All right, Billy. I am so excited to have you on here today, sir. Welcome to the Marketing Domination Podcast.
Billy Hofacker [00:37]: Thank you, man. This is scary because our energy is super similar. I'm excited to be here. I love marketing, I love finance, and I love helping people.
Sean Garner [00:42]: We're gonna bring the noise, bring the heat. So you are a fractional CFO, a money coach, if you will. My job, our job at our agency, is to get customers to come in. But guess what? If you can't pay the bills and keep the lights on, it doesn't really matter. So how did you even get into this? You work with a lot of gym owners, and you've been in the fitness space in the past. How did you get into this fractional CFO role?
The Morning a Tow Truck Took Billy's Car
Billy Hofacker [01:17]: Man, I have to start by telling you that back in 2010, I was living the dream. I was married. I'd had a lot of unfortunate experiences with the opposite sex, like a lot of guys do when they're single, and I really found the woman of my dreams. We had the house on Long Island, we had the cars. It was a white picket fence, seriously. We were about to start a family. I had this business and amazing clients.
There was this one day, one of those rare slowed-down days. It was just her and me sitting on the couch one morning, talking and connecting deeply. I look at her, she looks at me, and I said, "Everything I have is right here on this couch." No, I didn't really say that. But it was a really special slowed-down moment.
And then, boom, boom, boom. A knock at the door. It's like seven in the morning. I walk down the steps, open the door, and there's a very large man standing on my stoop. He hands me a piece of paper and says, "I'm taking your car for delinquent payments."
I'm like, "Man, I don't know what's happening here, but I can take care of this. What do I owe you? I've got my wife inside, I've got to get to work. Please unhook my car." My car was already hooked up to his tow truck.
He says, "Man, I hear this all the time, and I wish I could. I'm taking your car." And he took my car. I'm standing on my stoop watching my car get taken away, thinking, "What am I going to do?"
That was the moment I got a lot of clarity that not handling your money in a responsible manner can be devastating. I've been doing this for a while now, and I talked to a guy recently who told me he couldn't even sleep through the night because of his financial anxiety. I had my own major stress, just not feeling safe. What if I can't get the next client? What if this person doesn't sign up for another paid in full? What if I can't make payroll?
That led to a lot of change, probably more than we have time for. But during that period, I discovered we had $130,000 of non-mortgage debt. There were stacks of bills on my desk and in the drawer with red stamps on them. It was credit card debt, student loans, medical debt, loans with family members and friends, all types of debt. We ended up paying off that $130,000 in five years, and we ended up paying off almost $500,000 of everything in total. That took about thirteen years.
That created a lot of passion in me, just to see what it could do. And being in the fitness industry as an owner for all those years, I used the business as a vehicle to do that. I started having guys ask me, "What are you doing?" My gyms were very successful. I had two locations on Long Island, New York, and I started doing some business coaching, similar to you. I started helping them with their businesses.
Then in 2020, we all know what happened. That's when I had the real aha moment that my life was unique. I had this deep passion for the fitness world, but I also had this financial story a lot of people didn't know about. I wasn't sharing that story. Even when I was coaching, I was just talking about business, marketing, sales, all that stuff. But I had this little secret, and the story started coming out because I was working with about five business owner clients at the time. During COVID, as Warren Buffett says, they got caught with their pants down. The tide went out, and they were exposed because they didn't have good financial systems in place. That was the moment I realized, man, I can make a difference with this stuff.
So I went all in. I still had my gym business, but I wrote a book about the steps I took. It's called Fitness Profits. I started a podcast that we had the pleasure of having you on, called the Your Fitness Money Coach Podcast. I created an eight-week course for gym owners. Then I got into private coaching, and it has grown and evolved from there. I saw businesses that were more advanced and confused about how to get their money to work for them, how to expand, and where to allocate. So I started doing fractional CFO services. Then we added bookkeeping because we saw a lot of people had messy books, and AI didn't fix it, as you and I talked about in another conversation.
So it's evolved into this really cool business that I love. And it all started from that moment with that scary man who looked like he was going to take my head off back in 2010.
Why Busy Business Owners Are Often Broke
Sean Garner [05:38]: Thank you for sharing that story, by the way. I know there's definitely more to that one. But how does that even happen? You've sat with hundreds of business owners at this point, and if you ask any of them, they're so busy all the time. So how does it catch them off guard? Why are so many business owners saying they're busy when they're actually just broke?
Billy Hofacker [06:05]: Here's the phrase I like to say. They're too busy to make money.
Sean Garner [06:09]: I like that.
Billy Hofacker [06:10]: They're up at four in the morning. They head to the gym and train clients all morning. They're texting and posting on social media from the bathroom. As you mentioned in our other talk, they're eating out of their Tupperware, maybe in their car. They take a nap on the gym floor, wake up, do a half-butt workout, and more clients come in. Then they go home to two screaming kids and a spouse. They just can't make any money because they're too busy, and they don't pay attention to it.
What's interesting is that you're in the sales and marketing world. I didn't invent this, but it's the way I teach it sometimes. There are three legs on the stool.
The Three Legs of the Stool: Sales, Operations, and Finance
Billy Hofacker [06:50]: There's sales and marketing, there's operations, and there's finance. For the most part, everybody knows they need to do sales and marketing. But a lot of times, the financial leg gets completely neglected because sales and marketing is obvious. I have to get customers, I have to make the sales, and I have to service the clients.
If you've ever read The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey, he borrowed Dwight D. Eisenhower's time matrix and turned it into the four quadrants.
Sean Garner [07:24]: Yeah.
Billy Hofacker [07:24]: There's a direct correlation between how much time we spend in quadrant two activities and our success. Quadrant two activities are things that are important but not urgent, and finances are a really good example of that. Understanding your financial statements, doing a budget or a financial forecast, having a financial conversation with your spouse, coach, or team member, looking at what's coming down the pike, tracking your numbers. All those things are important, but nothing is going to blow up in the moment if they're not done. When you ignore them long enough, then it blows up.
In my case, I think it was a combination of things. The part I wasn't crystal clear on is that a lot of that debt was not business debt. It wasn't all coming from me not running my business properly. I mean, I wasn't, but that's not where all of it came from. There was also an emotional problem. Sean, if you could be my therapist for a minute here. I just ignored very real problems. Maybe I thought they would go away if I didn't pay attention to them. Maybe I was too insecure or too embarrassed. That would be a whole other conversation, but there's definitely an emotional component. That's true with all things, whether it's our relationships or our fitness levels. A lot of it comes down to our thoughts, our beliefs, and our emotions.
Something in me completely ignored a very real problem. It's like somebody saying, "My marriage is fine." It's not fine, and then there's a divorce. That happens all the time.
Why Five More Clients Won't Fix Your Business
Sean Garner [09:00]: Yeah, I think entrepreneurs are typically naturally optimistic people. So when it comes to finances, it's easy to ignore. "If I just keep grinding and keep my head down, the finances will take care of themselves because I'm going to make all this money."
Billy Hofacker [09:16]: Five more clients. That's all I need.
Sean Garner [09:18]: Yeah, there you go. Just need five more clients.
Billy Hofacker [09:23]: Let me say this. If you're listening to this podcast right now and you believe your only problem is five more clients, this is your wake-up call. I had my wake-up call. Yours is probably not as severe as mine because you're probably not in all that debt. But five more clients will not fix your problem. In other words, if you're not profitable now, you will not be more profitable with five more clients, because it's more of a foundational systems issue than a number-of-clients issue.
Pay Yourself First
Sean Garner [09:44]: Tell me a little more about that. I think a lot of people ignore the finance side partly because of the optimism, but also because it seems overwhelming to get started. You said foundationally. Okay, I'm a small business owner, I'm a gym owner. What are the top three to five numbers I need to know as a small business owner just to get started?
Billy Hofacker [10:12]: I'm going to do you one slightly better. I'll share the numbers, but I'm also going to share one of the places I like to start with people, so if you're listening and want to DIY this, you can take it.
You're not going to like this word because it sounds so scary, but let's call it what it is. You have a budget. All a budget means is this is the money coming in, this is the money going out, and this is where it's going. It's just a plan for your money. You can call it a budget or something else. The point is, on that plan, one thousand percent, which makes no sense because a hundred percent is the most, you have to have the amount of money you need to live. That assumes you don't have revenue from other places. If you're married, your spouse makes a lot of money, and you know you have time to ramp up, that might be a different story. Even then, I would argue that as quickly as possible, you need to pay yourself first.
A big trap is, "Five more clients, and then I'll be able to pay myself." Or, "I just need a really strong Q4, then I'll start paying myself." Pay yourself now. Make sure that's part of the plan. That's the little extra I wanted to share. And you can do it. Every business can pay the owner.
Here's the thing. I don't know you guys, so I can be a little bit tough love. If your business isn't paying you, it is sick. It's a sick, unhealthy business. I don't mean to make you feel shameful about that. I want you to wake up to that idea. If your business isn't paying you, it is unhealthy. It is dying. It is not going to make it.
There's a spectrum. If your business is paying you, but not enough, maybe it's slightly unhealthy. If your business is paying you and there's no profit beyond that, it's also not super healthy because you have a job. You have just enough to pay yourself. There's no profit, no way to grow, and no way to create more freedom. If your business pays you at least a reasonable wage and there's significant profit, then it's healthy. That's how it works.
The numbers don't lie. There's a famous saying that accounting tells the story of your business, and it does not lie. We can tell ourselves excuses. We can tell ourselves we just need five more clients. But the truth is, that won't fix it.
The Two-Minute Critical Four Test
Billy Hofacker: Now let me give you the numbers. I'm going to propose a challenge, and I call it the Two-Minute Critical Four Test. If you're watching the video, I've got my handy dandy timer here. Set it for two minutes. You need to get these four numbers and understand what they mean in your business.
Number one is your total sales. Really simple. That's the top line on your P&L, or your income statement, which are the same thing. Total sales and gross revenue are the same thing, too. It's really important to know because it shows you the growth trajectory of your business. Most of us want more and more sales because it helps the other numbers. There are only a few levers you can pull on the financial side.
The second number is your profit, or net income, which is also the same thing. That's your total sales minus all the expenses of the business, which is a whole other issue. I apologize if I sound like I'm talking to a little kid. I don't mean to. But I've seen so many financial statements with things on there that shouldn't be. You need to understand what qualifies as a business expense and what doesn't.
There's another concept called the central source of truth. If your numbers aren't accurate, it's next to impossible to make progress. It would be like Sean lives in Oklahoma, but I thought he lived in Arizona. I'd never get there. It's the same thing. If you think you have a certain amount of profit or expenses, but you don't, you won't be able to make the decisions you need to make.
So as a little aside, if you don't know these numbers, that's your step. I know you didn't sign up to be an accountant, but this is your business, and you need to know some of these things. It would be the same as saying, "I have a business, but I don't care about the marketing, and I don't want to understand it." It's an important part of the business. We have to take responsibility there, and you can do it.
Net income is the second number. That's the health of your business, the profitability, like I shared before. The third number is your cash position. That's how much cash you have to operate your business. It's really important because it shows you the runway you have available. You want a good amount of reserves. Let's call it two months of operating expenses in cash, because you never know what's going to happen. You might lose that big customer, something might happen in the economy, or something in your personal life might affect your cash flow. So make sure you're protected and you understand your cash position.
That number is found on your balance sheet, not your profit and loss statement. Those are different statements. The profit and loss statement shows you a period of time, from January 1st through December 31st, for example. The balance sheet shows you a snapshot at a specific point in time of different components of your business, namely your assets, your liabilities, and your equity.
The final number of the Critical Four for your two-minute test is probably the most important and the least talked about. It's called net owner benefit. Net owner benefit is the amount of money that's benefiting you as the owner of the business, and it's a different number from all the others I've shared. Depending on how your business is taxed, it could be the amount you take as a salary. It could be the profit in the business. It could also include the retirement contributions your business makes on your behalf. Those are all things that benefit you financially, and they're really important. We want to make sure you track your net owner benefit each and every month.
What Counts as Net Owner Benefit?
Sean Garner [17:01]: Would you put vehicles and stuff like that under net owner benefit as well?
Billy Hofacker [17:04]: That's a good question. I'm crazy nerdy, so I'll tell you what I do and what I recommend. I recommend one of two options. One is you track two numbers for net owner benefit, and I actually do this.
The first one I call economic net owner benefit. I feel like I named this. I haven't really heard it anywhere else. It includes only things that are purely financial. That's the salary. I also include the employer taxes on the owner's salary because that's a financial benefit to the owner. You'd have to pay those taxes otherwise. I include the profit and the retirement contributions. I track those on their own because I want to keep myself completely honest.
Take vehicles. A vehicle might be a really great benefit. But the problem is it's the opposite of an economic benefit. It's money that was actually spent. I know there are different ways to look at that, but I like to prevent people from bloating that number so much that they lose the reality of how the finances are benefiting them.
So I track the economic benefit, and then I track one I just call net owner benefit, which does include things like that. It could be a car, a cell phone, or anything else the business pays for that benefits you as the owner. But I've seen people say, "I went to this business conference, and I love learning, so I'm going to count that. And I bought this thing for my office. It's really cool." Then you can start getting a little carried away.
Sean Garner [18:42]: No, I love that. Sometimes there's your business salary versus owner draws versus net owner benefit, like your vehicle and other things you can get inside of that. I like how you have the two different ways to break that down.
Budgets, 13-Month Forecasts, and the 13-Week Cash Flow Forecast
Sean Garner [18:53]: So tell me this. When it comes to breaking down budgets, two-parter here. One, when you're working with a client, are you calling it a budget, or is it more of a financial plan? And two, how do you break it down? Do you have it standardized where they're spending a certain percentage in certain categories?
Billy Hofacker [19:18]: Good question. For the first one, the budget or the plan, we do something that I think is a little different than most, the same way you do things a little differently. We do a projection, or forecast, and that includes the numbers that would show up on a profit and loss, and also the numbers that would show up on a balance sheet.
I'll explain the difference. A profit and loss would be your sales and the expenses of the business. That includes your salary, your rent, your marketing, your office supplies, all those things. Then there are the numbers that show up on your balance sheet, which are mostly outflows. Not a lot flows in through the balance sheet.
There are some things. If you took a loan and the money came into your bank, that would be incoming, but it wouldn't be on your P&L. Or you might put money into your business. I know a lot of us have done that, taken personal money and dumped it into the business to help it grow. That's called an owner contribution, and it would show up there. But most of those numbers are outflows, like an owner distribution, which I think you alluded to, or a loan payment. Say you took out a $100,000 loan for some equipment. The principal part of that payment is not on your P&L. It's on your balance sheet, so it goes in that section of the forecast.
The budget side includes all of that together, which is really cool because it shows you your cash at the start. Then the money comes in, the expenses go out, the balance sheet transactions happen, and where are you left? You could do that for one month and see where you are now and where you'll be after the month. You could do it for two months or three. We do thirteen months, so you can see where you're going to be in thirteen months if it all plays out.
The other thing that's important to mention is that for a lot of clients, we also do what's called a 13-week cash flow forecast. It's very similar, but it's broken down over a shorter term, weekly. It's a really valuable tool for people with tight cash. If you have a lot going in and a lot going out and things are tight, you really want to track it. It includes all of the cash going in and out.
For the second part of your question about percentages, the answer is yes. We look at the total amount of revenue, and then we have targets for different percentage allocations. X amount is for rent. X amount is for marketing. X amount is for people: the salaries, the payroll, the taxes, anything associated with that. And there's an allocation percentage for you, so you can plan your profit. I know it's easier said than done, but you say, "Hey, twenty percent of this is going to be profit." Then you start there and make everything else work around it.
There's a famous quote, I think it's also Warren Buffett, that most people spend their money and save what's left. When we spend our money and save what's left, how much is left? Usually it's zero or negative because we spent more than we made. Financially successful people save first, then spend the rest. It's just a different way to look at it.
How Much Should You Spend on Marketing?
Sean Garner [22:48]: As a marketing agency owner, I have to ask. What do you typically recommend for businesses from a percentage standpoint for their marketing budget? When I meet with a lot of business owners, they look at marketing as a dollar amount expense. They don't attach it to a percentage of the revenue coming in, whether they're in maintenance mode or growth mode. So what's the range you typically advise, where you should at least be spending this much on marketing?
Billy Hofacker [23:22]: It's a good question. I've seen broad ranges, so I'll share a few thoughts and some numbers. Looking at the whole picture is important when you're looking at your percentage allocations. Say you have a very low rent for some reason. Gyms sometimes have that. I have a couple of clients in weird scenarios where their rent is half of what it normally would be. One guy had a landlord who was about a hundred years old and just never raised the rent, so they're paying pennies on the dollar. That gave them extra room for marketing, so they could shift some of that allocation over.
So you look at all of these allocations together. If you're at the top end of all of them, you might be in trouble. But if some of them are lower, you have more room for others. On the bottom end, if you're lower than about eight percent, there's probably an opportunity to do more. If you're upwards of fifteen percent or higher, that might be limiting your ability to do other things. Somewhere in that range is a good ballpark. But again, there's a full picture we want to look at.
How to Tell If Your Marketing Is Paying Off
Sean Garner [24:36]: When it comes to that marketing dollar and that percentage, how do you coach people to understand their ROI on that investment? It's not just a sunk cost. If they're investing in marketing, we should be able to see a positive ROI. How do you tell whether a marketing dollar actually came back?
Billy Hofacker [24:58]: One of the big ones is really looking at the cash. A lot of people will say, "I'm getting really cheap leads. I'm only paying fifty dollars a lead." And I'm like, "Yeah, but how many of them became clients?" And they're like, "Well, none of them, but they're on my list, and one day they might convert." So I like to look at the converted dollars. How much cash has that marketing converted to? As long as that's positive, I'm in good shape.
I also want to look at my margins, because people make the mistake of believing that if they bring in a $3,000 client, that's $3,000 in their pocket. That's not exactly right. That $3,000 is revenue. It's not necessarily cash in your pocket. If you're spending a thousand and making three thousand, but your margins are twenty percent, you only pocketed six hundred dollars. So you actually saw a four-hundred-dollar loss on cash in that scenario.
So I look at the cash converted and my margins. That's an overly simplified way to look at it because there are other factors.
The One Thing to Do This Week
Sean Garner [26:14]: No, that was good. You gave us the two-minute drill, which I loved. But what's something a business owner should do this week to get that overall picture? The one thing they should do this week when it comes to their finances?
Billy Hofacker [26:34]: Okay, so this week. Depending on when this hits, we're in the fourth quarter of 2026. If you're listening to this in 2036, it was ten years ago. Hopefully this has a shelf life like that.
Sean Garner [26:46]: There we go. Hopefully.
Billy Hofacker [26:49]: I don't know that this is the number one thing, but it's up there. Think of a car. There's the rear view, which is what happened in the past. A lot of business owners are unclear about what happened in the past. They don't know the numbers I talked about. So that might be the thing to do this week. I have to learn those numbers. I call it taking an inventory. I have to know where I am. Do you know your net worth? That's more of a personal thing, but it's another example. If you don't know where you are, it's hard to know where you're going.
Then there are the current systems, what you're doing right now. Do you have some kind of plan, a budget, or a forecast? Do you have a system for what happens to the money that comes into your business? Are your personal finances and business finances completely separate, or are they commingled and confusing? Do you have a plan for your taxes? Are you allocating a percentage of your profit to cover your tax liability? Are you planning for profit? Are you taking distributions from the business? Those are the things you do on an ongoing basis to manage the cash flow coming in.
Then there's the future, which we already talked about. That's the projecting and forecasting. I know, dude, you asked me for one thing, but I'm getting there.
Depending on your scenario, if you don't know what happened in the past, this is going to be hard, so that might be the first step. But let's say you do have an idea. Look at your goals. Do you have a financial goal? If you don't, Zig Ziglar used to say, "If you don't have a target, you'll hit it every time." That's your first step. Where are you going? Decide what you want. You don't have what you want because you've never decided what you want, or you never made it clear.
So look at what you wanted to accomplish and where you are in relation to it. In this fourth quarter, what needs to be done? Do you need to refigure that target, or are you on track, and what do you need to do to hit it? It's deciding where you are in relation to where you want to be and what you're going to do about it. I just did this past week, and I'm still in the process. It's a really valuable exercise.
How to Connect With Billy
Sean Garner [28:56]: That's awesome. We got a lot of homework here. We got the two-minute drill, and we got that good overall snapshot. Tons of value here, Billy. If people heard all this and think, "This sounds awesome, but I need help with this," what's the best way for them to find you and get connected with you?
Billy Hofacker [29:13]: The best way to connect with me is to reach out through social media. It's all under my name, Billy Hofacker. Shoot me a message and just say, "Hey, I heard your interview. I'd love to connect." From there, we'll set up a visit and chat. I'll ask you some questions, find out what you have going on, and we'll see if it makes sense for me to help you or not. Either way, it'll be a great conversation, and I'll point you in the right direction.
Sean Garner [29:41]: That's awesome. Go out there and connect with Billy so you can get a better feel for the pulse of your business and see how it's going for you.
Billy Hofacker [29:49]: And if you're somebody who's like, "That sounds really good, but I'm scared of that guy," just check out the podcast, Your Fitness Money Coach. You can hear Sean on there. We did a great episode on marketing. It's a good way to get to know me. I'm similar to you, Sean. I like to drill the foundational principles, because if we keep doing those, we'll do well, rather than chasing the flashy, shiny-object stuff.
Sean Garner [30:17]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Billy Hofacker [30:18]: I'll teach this stuff week in and week out because we all need to hear it. We're never past it.
Sean Garner [30:22]: I love it. Well, Billy, thank you so much for your time and for sharing your expertise with our audience today. Guys, go connect with him on social and book that call so you can get a better understanding of where you're at with your business. Thanks so much, Billy, for being on the Marketing Domination Podcast.
Billy Hofacker [30:38]: Thanks for having me. It was a lot of fun.
